Malinda Lo
Blog
Mar 22, 2011
My thoughts on the casting of Jennifer Lawrence in “The Hunger Games”
I seem to get sucked into fascinating Twitter discussions while I’m eating breakfast all the time! Just today we were discussing the lack of gay girls in YA, which is something I’ve been thinking about for awhile, along with the assumption that it’s harder to publish a YA novel with a gay girl main character.
But! Last week I got sucked into an even more exciting and heated discussion centering on the casting of Jennifer Lawrence as Katniss in the upcoming Hunger Games movie, and whether or not Katniss is white, and whether or not Suzanne Collins should have been more clear about it.
The discussion on Twitter veered all over the place, ending up in a debate about how exactly to be clear about race in speculative fiction novels that are not set on this here Earth right now. It was way too unwieldy of a topic to discuss on Twitter, I think, so I’m going to blog about my thoughts here. (And a disclaimer: THESE ARE MY OPINIONS. Sure, I think my opinions are right, but that doesn’t mean you have to.)
Let me set things up.
As you may have heard, Jennifer Lawrence, recently in the critically acclaimed Winter’s Bone, was cast as our heroine Katniss Everdeen in the film version of Suzanne Collins’ awesome Hunger Games. I haven’t seen Lawrence in Winter’s Bone, and I am a big fan of The Hunger Games (all three books!). A lot of fan reaction to the casting was negative, because Jennifer doesn’t look like Katniss, and she’s a few years older. These things don’t bother me — Hollywood rarely casts teens to play teens, and besides, she can change her hair color. But one objection did make me pause: Many readers believed that this was a case of whitewashing, because either (1) they believe Katniss is a person of color, and Jennifer Lawrence is white; or (2) the Hollywood casting calls requested a Caucasian actress, thereby eliminating people of color from contention.
Jennifer Lawrence
Number 2 would be excused, to some degree, if Katniss herself were white, and I realized while reading these objections that I didn’t actually know if this was true. I didn’t remember anything in the books identifying her as one race or another. On many blog posts, including this one at Jezebel, Katniss’s “olive skin” is parsed in some detail, and it is suggested that she is biracial at least.
But then a couple of people on Twitter reminded me that Katniss’s sister, Prim, is fair-haired and blue-eyed, which pretty much sealed the deal for me. I think Katniss is white.
So: Why the confusion? Is it because Suzanne Collins wasn’t clear enough about Katniss’s racial background? Or have a lot of readers simply been misinterpreting her?
That may have been the case, because race is in many ways tangled up with class in The Hunger Games, and unfortunately there is a tendency among many people in the United States (and the predominantly white West) to associate poverty and oppression with being nonwhite. This may seem to be a clear parallel, but it is not. It provides a limiting perception (at best!) of both poverty and race.
If you’ve grown up in the West, where people of color have routinely been associated with the lower classes, it’s hard to avoid this assumption. You’ve probably been surrounded by popular culture in which most people of color are impoverished, live in the inner city, are essentially different from you, etc. This is why TV shows like The Cosby Show were so incredible in their time; they worked to explode that myth.
Anyway, I’m veering off-track here, but the point is: I understand why it would be assumed that Katniss is not white. She is darker than some of the wealthier characters; she is poor; she is oppressed.
But I think, considering the fact that her sister is white and Suzanne Collins approved the casting of Jennifer Lawrence, that whitewashing is not an issue here. I’ve only heard good things about Lawrence’s skill as an actress, and I’m kind of heartened by the fact that they cast such a critically acclaimed actress in the role. It gives me hope that the filmmakers are taking the book seriously and will attempt to do it justice.
A bigger question is: How clear does a writer have to be about the racial background of her characters? And that’s a question I will leave for another day, but if you have any opinions on it, opine away! (Just keep the discussion civil. I don’t tolerate author-bashing or racism.)
Edited 3/24/11: I’m closing comments now because I think we’ve talked this up enough, and I’m starting to get trolls. Thanks for the discussion!
Because it was pretty clear that District 12 is in rural Appalachia, I had assumed Katniss was white. In addition to “olive skin” (which I read as Mediterranean-European, or “white”), she has grey eyes. In Collins’ case, I think the book was set in a “post-racial” world, if that makes sense; it is less about “race” than about divisions by class/district and yes, money.
The only character I can think of off the top of my head as being a “character of color” is Rue and Thresh, due to their brown skin, but I think Collins was being intentionally vague about race: Haymitch and Gale are described as having that “Seam look” (dark hair, olive skin, grey eyes) and Rue and Thresh are also indicative of the people in their district. In the years following the fall of America, I would think that gene pools would have mixed to create a certain regional “look”.
Also, randomly, I always thought that Cinna was Asian. And gay. But it isn’t important to the story.
Except that being blue eyed and blonde haired does not necessarily mean you are white. Many mixed race people have such features, and to deny this is extremely offensive and erasing. To simply proclaim ‘she’s white ’cause I think all people who have siblings like that are!’ is… er, downright awful, to be frank for a moment.
I think this post explains it better than I: http://badparsiqueer.tumblr.com/post/3974883025/crossedwires-metaphors-and-messages-aliya-a
(And for that matter, if you feel the need to sit there and spend long periods of time explaining away any remotely possible subtext that someone might, in fact, not be white, that is seriously your issue and nobody else’s.)
But this is not a film that will be viewed in a fictional post-racial world like you suggest the book is; it will be viewed in OUR, real world, which still has issues with race, and it is about what the casting communicates *to the audience*, surely? So that point’s pretty moot.
Great post. I don’t sit on either side of this fence. I will say this. My son has brown hair, blue-gray eyes and is bi-racial. Both my children have the equivalent of a yellowy/tan/orange skin tone that when they are out in the sun turns more brown. I have never understood this olive classification since olives are green or black as far as I know. But that’s just me. I loves me some olives. But seriously. What I’m concerned about as a writer is how Hollywood will adapt the material we all know and love. Will they treat with the same lack of respect as Twilight’s first film or will they step up and recognize the mistakes they make by discounting YA material as cotton candy. PB and MG adaptations are tested with far better respect which in Holleood equals money, time and talent. I am anxious to see how this plays out and frankly I don’t care what color Katniss is. If Suzanne Collins wanted to declare her race definitively, she would have. She fulfilled her obligation to us by writing an amazing series. My .02. Keep the change.
Despite the book’s setting in a post-racial world, I agree that it is still read (and the movie will be viewed) through the lens of our racially-fraught existence. Because I read this through a racially-fraught lens, I made the immediate assumption that Katniss was white, based on historical and current populations of rural Appalachia. (Where Katniss is from.) Katniss’s Appalachian origins were very important to Collins’, and that Jennifer Lawrence is an actress from that area says a lot, considering the author’s involvement in the casting decisions.
However, would I have preferred open casting for Katniss, instead of limiting the casting calls to Caucasian actresses only? Absolutely. Are there biracial/multiracial girls from that area who could have “fit the bill”? I’m positive there are. I’m biracial myself and I would love to see more people like us portrayed onscreen.
I always thought of Katniss and most of the people in her town, including Gale and Haymitch, as white. As you read The Hunger Games you can start to piece together where different districts lay in what used to be our world. For instance it’s clear that Katniss is in the Appalachian Mountains (I always thought Pennsylvania for some reason).
I’m not sure how much I think this speaks of what race they are. I know a lot of people thought Rue was black based off the descriptions of her District. I for some reason, always pictured her as Indian.
I know plenty of people who have olive skin and are white. Most Italians are considered to have olive skin.
It’s not just that Prim has blonde hair and blue eyes, she’s described several times as pale. To me this is another indicator that she’s white.
I think Collin’s did a fine job with describing the race of her characters. The fact that we know who non-white character are (Rue and Thresh) tells me that she meant for Katniss to be white.
I’m just excited for the movie now!
Totes not about Katniss but I wanted to say thanks so much for your point about making assumptions about race based on economic status. I finished Shipbreaker recently and while there are some characters who are definitely described as African American and Indian the main (poor) character is dark skinned, but he works outside in extreme heat all the time. My mind automatically went to him being possibly Indian, but as I read on I wondered why I was making that assumption instead of assuming that his skin was brown because of the sun…you might have just hit on why and opened my eyes to an unconcious bias.
I am confused by that link you posted. Is the writer suggesting that readers of the HUNGER GAMES, if white, should be casting themselves as the oppressors from the Capital instead of as Katniss and reading from the Capital’s perspective? Because I can’t see how that would work in any way except as a self-conscious nod to politics. The book is in first person–we spend the trilogy in Katniss’s head and filter all events through her consciousness.
Thus, to tell people NOT to identity with Katniss because they are privileged is to remove not only one of the pleasures of reading fiction, but also the ability of the reader to empathize with someone who lives a radically different life.
IA with your assertion that Katniss having a sibling who is blonde and white in no way negates the possibility of being biracial. There can be very different shades of color in the same family.
I definitely pictured Cinna as Asian and gay too!
I’m really excited to see who they get to play him and Haymitch.
Interesting stuff, and I have to admit I haven’t read the books (especially Hunger Games) recently enough to remember all the details with accuracy, so I may be wrong… But I thought Katniss’ looks were actually contrasted with those of her mother and sister at some point, with the implication that they could nearly pass as upper class, because of their skin color and blond hair. So I always read Katniss as multi-racial, just expressing the other side of her heritage more than the other women in her family. But, again, I would swear to none of this in court and may have just picked it up through discussions about the books with people afteward. As a reader, though, my impression was that Collins built this stuff in there intentionally (though, yes, obviously it’s subtle or we wouldn’t be having these conversations! and I could be misremembering).
Honestly, I’d have been happier if an actress of color had ever seemed close to the part or in serious contention. My frustration is more about the realities of Hollywood and the homogeneity of the actress/starlet pool. It is fairly unusual to have a heroine in such a blockbuster whose race is even debatable as non-white, and it would have been gutsy if that was carried through the casting (or appeared to have been entertained as a casting option). I’ve seen others say it feels like a missed opportunity, and I agree.
I think the most frustrating part was the fact that casting was closed, and they had specified “Caucasian actresses only”. I object less to Jennifer Lawrence than the closed casting, which means it shut out all the multiracial girls who could have been great contenders for the role.
I always pictured Rue and Thresh as Indian too!
Or Hispanic. But that’s my own upbringing/bias: I was raised in California, so I hear “agriculture” and the association I make is “migrant worker”.
Exactly! This is how I feel. I’m sure she’ll do a fine job, and I think she’s an interesting actress. But I still wish they’d cast a much wider net.
I’m glad I’m not the only person who saw them as possibly Indian!
OK, me three: I also thought Cinna was Asian and potentially gay, but I was a little disturbed by the fact that I thought he was gay, since he’s also a stylist. Stereotype, right? So I kept trying to figure out if maybe it was a trick and he was straight. Something in Mockingjay made me think he was straight, but I don’t remember what!
No, come to think of it, I may have thought Rue was Indian too. Interesting the way our assumptions play into these things, isn’t it?
Whoa. I’m not trying to harsh anyone’s subtext. Let’s stay on-topic and civil, please.
I totally get the Hollywood frustration. I guess I just didn’t expect more from them. The fact that they went with an actress who is supposed to be GOOD as opposed to just HOT went a long way with me.
I mean, I worked as an entertainment reporter for years. I would ask producers all the time about whether their shows had gay characters in them. They’d look at me blankly and say, “there’s no reason why not,” as if they’d never even THOUGHT about it before. (They rarely ever added a gay character afterward, but they did tweak their responses to sound more PC.) It’s a long, slow battle with Hollywood — they’re very risk-averse in a highly risky business. It’s extremely frustrating.
I thought of Rue as Indian, too.
“My son has brown hair, blue-gray eyes and is bi-racial.”
This is one reason why I interpreted Katniss as biracial, the other being that I’m biracial and have light-colored eyes, so of course I read into things through the lens of my bias toward what I know.
Malinda: I loved this post. The closed casting call was far more alarming to me than the ultimate choice. I’m being optimistic and looking forward to the film.
A lot of book adaptions have been messed with in the descriptions of their characters and (worse in my opinion) their stories. It’s always an annoyance to me, but with given your conclusion and the general conclusion of people commenting, a little makeup could give Jennifer that slight olive tone. It’s Hollywood.
I’m just excited to see Jennifer Lawrence in this role, and can’t wait for the film to come out. My only complaint is that this is taking her away from The Last Apprentice movie (where she would’ve played Alice, next to Julianne Moore and Jeff Bridges!!!).
-Michael
When I was little, I kind of thought that “olive skin” was so described because most of the people with that skin tone came from areas where olives grew: Spain, Italy, Greece, etc. Because yeah, calling it “olive” conjures up green for me.
I also come from a VERY Italian town – a recent study revealed that my hometown has the highest percentage of Italians (around 50%) in the state with the highest percentage in the US – so any description saying “olive skin, dark hair, dark eyes” immediately reads as Mediterranean to me. Actually, most of the biracial people I’ve known have had fairer skin than most of the Italians. (They also possibly don’t go tanning as much.)
I agree that the casting call (“Caucasian actress”) is so problematic. Also – to the point that this is supposedly a future world where race plays out differently (I can’t bring myself to say “post racial”) why NOT go with an actress of color/multiethnic heritage? Because in this future setting there is ROOM to cast outside of expectations (in the same way that Suzanne Collins left room for all our readerly interpretations of race – either intentionally or not). I like the article from bitch.com that suggested that “casting Katniss as white is a missed opportunity” – to me, it’s not about right or wrong (this is a fictional character, for goodness sake, there is no right or wrong.), but about pushing boundaries and seizing the opportunity to caste an actress of color if she was right for the role…
And I can’t buy the “authorial intent” argument (ie. Suzanne Collins didn’t intend her to be of color) — I’m too much of a literature prof not to go all litcrit on that argument and say this – texts interact with readers in important ways that go WAY beyond authors’ intention (how else could we all insert ourselves and our expectations into the story? why else do so many people think Katniss might be of mixed heritage?) — we all read through the lens of our personal set of stories and embodied experiences. And this includes how we ‘read’ race into stories. This is the joy and richness of the readerly experience! And the writerly experience too – we all know that feeling of “discovering” something in your text you didn’t know/consciously intend to be there! To deny it and rely on authorial intent as the end all and be all of “truth” in the story is to deny the ambiguity and richness of literature itself! (there, done with lecture, off soapbox now!
No, it’s suggesting that to make the lead white within the fictional universe carries incredibly large unfortunate implications. *Within the fictional universe*. Just that it is appropriating, etc.
It is not about the readers- white readers can individually relate to the protagonist as a person of colour, of course… but I think the word there is individually, rather than as a part of any sort of… institutionalised group? Not sure I’m phrasing this well, but taking into consideration what *groups* represent in a cultural context and on a larger scale is very important.
I think more people were upset about the casting call than Jennifer Lawrence’s casting — I totally believe that Jennifer Lawrence is a good actress who will do Katniss justice, and I’m glad Suzanne Collins has such a great opinion of her, but how many bi/multiracial actresses would have done a similarly great job and never had the chance to? Even if Katniss isn’t supposed to be multiracial, which I still doubt, it wouldn’t harm the role to cast an actress who is.
As far as Prim goes: it’s rare, but in no way impossible for fair hair and blue eyes to show up within multiracial families. It might decrease the odds of Katniss being a PoC, but I don’t think it rules it out completely.
On the Appalachia front, it’s possible there’s some relation to the Melungeons.
Lastly, I found this post on Katniss’s race fascinating.
To be clear: I’m not saying there’s no possible way that Katniss is white. I think it could go either way. But I’m personally leaning towards mixed.
And while I don’t think a white actress is a complete outrage in this case, I do think it’s awful that mixed actresses had no chance to audition, and I think that not having an actress of color in a major role like this is a missed opportunity,
Because the area is majority white? Majority white doesn’t mean a character can’t be anything but white, it just makes it significantly less likely. So I’m not sure I buy it. And if, as you claim, we’re supposed to view it as a post-racial world, why would the current state of it be relevant? I mean, I know authors take inspiration from the context in which they live, but it seems like this would be too concious a decision for that to hold up IMO.
a little makeup could give Jennifer that slight olive tone. It’s Hollywood.
I would honestly rather that they keep her natural skin color. (Well, she could get a tan, but that’d be to be true to the character — Katniss spends a lot of time outside to hunt — and not for reasons of race.) There’s all kinds of nasty history attached to white actors portraying characters of color. Blackface, yellowface, etc. They’d be better off just letting it go, at that point.
Missed opportunity. Agreed; that’s a good way to put it. I would’ve loved to see an actress of color tackle this role.
Honestly, I was baffled by all of this “Katniss is not white” conversation. I feel like some of it came from a place that the internets folks had so much fun getting their panties in a *legitimate* twist with whitewashing accusations against Airbender and Liar that they coudln’t wait to do it again, even though there was no legitimacy. Collins goes out of her way to say Rue and a few other characters from other districts are not white and that the Districts are somewhat divided on racial lines due to their isolation, and the rest of Katniss’s family is “fair” and that everyone else in District 12 is also white! You can go out of your way to argue against that, but the text *does* actively support the supposition that Katniss is white, on several levels.
I am white and *I* have olive skin — yes, actually the color of an olive. Nothing to do with “where olives are grown”! It has a natural greenish/yellow cast and if I wear certain colors of green or yellow I look like an olive. And, finally, Collins hints quite strongly both in the text and in her public readings of the text that Katniss’ district is Appalachia, which is very white, and at the very least is a coal-mining district similar to Appalachia. Speaking as a white granddaughter of a white coal miner with dark hair and olive skin, and as a daughter of a white coal miner’s daughter (which Katniss is) with dark hair and olive skin… well, the idea that saying she has dark hair is somehow coded for biracial is downright laughable. When you are in an isolated, rural district where everyone is of, say, light-haired Polish or Irish descent and you are the one dark German or Italian white kid there, you stand out. Trust my mother’s family on this one.
Finally, I never come out and say my biracial character Giovanni is black, but I go out of my way to describe him as having dark skin — which almost every reader I’ve ever had has translated in their head to “olive” skin and made him look purely Italian, instead of half-Italian, half-African American, which he is. I find it ironic that people are going the other way with Katniss.
I don’t think we’re “supposed” to view it was a post-racial world, that was an imposition on my part, sorry. My assumption of a post-racial world is due to race not being mentioned in the books at all, but it is my assumption, not fact.
However, with regards to Katniss’s Appalachian background leading me to think she is white, if an area is historically (and I don’t mean just “in the past”; I mean throughout time) majority white, I will make the (possibly erroneous) assumption that a character from said region is white because that is the context with which I have to form the character. We do not draw conclusions in a vacuum. Is her Appalachian background relevant in a post-racial setting? Only insofar as a possible evolution of a region’s racial and ethnic demographic from today to the future setting of the books. This isn’t to say that Katniss couldn’t be any other ethnicity–it’s just that it was my first thought. The text doesn’t say one way or another.
hey diana – here’s a nice blog piece by mitali perkins on the issue: http://www.mitaliblog.com/2009/06/race-caste-and-class-in-hunger-games.html
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Again, to me, it’s not about ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ (is she white or isn’t she? maybe ‘white’ isn’t even a viable organizing category in this alternate world after all), based on what the author intended (or not), rather I find interest in how we all insert our readings into a text we love. The benefit of SF&F is that we can imagine worlds differently and challenge our commonly held assumptions/social dynamics from our time/world, no? Although I actually agree that the culture/history of an Appalachian coal mining town/area is really important to this text – but that doesn’t 100% equate for me with race only because it’s a future society where ethnic lines may be differently drawn…
And I think your point is interesting – that people do often ‘read’ race in a way that reinforces hegemony (ie. even someone like Giovanni, a character whose skin tone you’re describing as dark, gets ‘read’ as solely white-Italian), which is why sometimes it’s important to pull doubly hard in the other direction – to either challenge assumptions, get representation, or at least just get the conversation going and point out our own readerly expectations/assumptions… (including, obviously, my own – I’m fully implicating myself here too…
agree very much with your point of history of cultural appropriation/Blackface in cinema… yeeks, better to stay clear of that horribleness…
Wow. So don’t agree about the whole author’s intention doesn’t matter thing. As an author I’d be peeved to see my characters cast inappropriately – “Oh when I read ALEX I just kept forgetting she was a girl, so let’s cast her as a boy instead” – uh, no thank you.
I also can’t help but wonder how you would feel if a clear character of a visible minority was being cast as a white person – does the author’s intention and the interpretations of the readers’ reasoning still work then? Would it have been cool to have Keira Knightley play the lead in “Memoirs of a Geisha” because after all the character has blue/grey eyes and the book was written by a white man . . . one could perceive what made her uniquely beautiful in the book were western qualities and wouldn’t it be interesting to cast a white girl in the lead to push that thought further?
The fact is, they got into enough trouble casting a Chinese girl instead of a Japanese one. Can you imagine what people would have said had they cast someone white??
But maybe that’s why I personally hated English courses so much, to me it became all about what the reader wanted things to mean, not necessarily what the writer intended. And that REALLY bugged me. Uh . . . I should add, that that’s my personal taste completely and I truly mean no disrespect in sharing my opinion. I have a lot of friends who were English majors and my parents taught English, so I respect the view, I just disagree with it.
(Also for the record I’m olive skinned and caucasian. I never for a moment thought Katniss was anything other than that too. I’ve never actually heard a mixed race individual described as olive skinned either. Considering the rest of her family is blond and Collins’ approves of the casting and is caucasian herself – and, like it or not, many authors tend to write main characters that match their race – I can’t help but think she was meant to be caucasian. Still this debate is fascinating, and I’m glad it’s happening.)
Also, uh, what Diana said
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I know a girl who is biracial (African and French) who is dark-skinned, with the characteristic frizzy hair. Her sister, on the other hand, is very fair-skinned and blond but she has the frizzy hair as well- but this is about the only thing that makes her look even remotely “black”. This is just to say that it is perfectly possible for one biracial child to look biracial, while the other one looks perfectly caucasian, even though they have the same parents.
That said, in my head Katniss is at least of mixed ethnicity, and this assumption certainly doesn’t spring from the fact that I associate poverty with being nonwhite. It’s just… it is stressed a lot of times that Katniss (and Gale and Haymitch for that matter) have “the characteristic Seam look”, so why stress that if you are perfectly happy to have Katniss portrayed by a caucasian actress? I think this wouldn’t bug me so much if they had even made the smallest effort to try for diversity and have the casting call open to girls of mixed ethnicity too. Even if it isn’t white-washing, this closed casting call was at least discriminating and unfair, so thanks for your valuable thoughts on that matter!
Actually, if you do research on Appalachian ethnic groups, you might find the “Melungeons” who are considered tri-racial (white, African-American, Native-American). So there is historical precedent within Appalachia of dark-haired, olive-skinned people who are not completely white.
just to clarify – I didn’t mean authorial intent doesn’t matter, just that readers’ readings do matter. Now, if someone was able to read “Memoirs of a Geisha” and imagine Keira Knightly I’d be mighty surprised – but clearly lots of thoughtful readers could imagine a non white Katniss….
That is really interesting!
I suppose my question is, where is the line drawn, how many readers have to picture a character a certain way for it to usurp the vision of the author?
I’m seeing a lot of people saying things like “I hear ‘olive skin’ and think Italian/Greek/Mediterranean, so she’s white” in apparent ignorance of how recently olive-skinned people from the Mediterranean have come to be considered “white” in the U.S. Sacco and Vanzetti’s trial and execution took place less than a hundred years ago.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Italianism#Violence_against_Italians
So I don’t think “white” vs. “non-white” is actually a useful distinction here. Even if Katniss is thought of as white–in the books, by the author, by the readers, by the movie producers, by the audience–that doesn’t mean that her particular type of white is the same as Jennifer Lawrence’s.
I too think this is a missed opportunity, and the casting call should have said “olive skin, dark hair” rather than specifying an ethnic or racial background.
This discussion has been really interesting to me because a lot of folks are arguing that Katniss is biracial, and then saying that you can be biracial and not look white. Obviously this is true, and for the record, I, too am biracial. I’m 1/4 Anglo and 3/4 Chinese, but if you look at me, you’re not gonna think I have any “white” in me.
However, another interesting thread is authorial intent, which is something I don’t think we can entirely ignore here. She has publicly stated that she supports the casting of Lawrence in the role, and I have to believe that if Katniss’s non-white racial qualities were that important to her, she would have objected.
At any rate, it’s really interesting to me that many people passionately want Katniss to be seen onscreen as nonwhite.
I am tired of people saying that Katniss being from the Appalachian region is obviously an indication of her whiteness. Have these people never heard of the Melungeon?
Hollywood’s a weird place. I think we honestly can’t know whether Collins’s statement of support is genuine, or what her reasons are for making it. Maybe she’s just glad it’s not worse.
I know you speak the truth. (But it still angers me! Grrr.)
Absolutely, “whiteness” is certainly not a fixed category. It’s good to remember that.
I don’t know that Hollywood would ever get so specific about physical appearance though. I mean, the goal isn’t to cast someone who looks exactly like the way a character in a book is described; it’s to cast someone who can inhabit the role, isn’t it? Except in specific situations, e.g. Harry Potter where the entire world would have freaked out if they’d cast a blond boy, I don’t think Hollywood much cares for being accurate, especially when it comes to adaptations from books.
I don’t think people are denying that Katniss could be white, it’s that people are arguing for the equal validity that she might not be or at least not completely, considering Katniss’ vague physical description and the futuristic setting. There was a hope that the casting people would put more weight on the physical description and open up casting, not just to “Caucasian actresses,” but to actresses who are bi-racial, multi-racial, non-Caucasian who fit the description.
All I’m saying is that texts have a life of their own – they exist for readers as well as authors. I wasn’t arguing about a “critical mass” to “usurp” her, rather challenging the idea that there was ONE vision/truth for any text – and that was the vision stated by the author.
Casting this actress isn’t ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ to me – but it does open up conversations about the limited representation of people of color in the movies, and a possible missed opportunity to address that with a text that does leave some room for interpretation (which is different than saying it’s ‘wrong’).
Yeah, I’m hapa and no one ever notices my white half (except, oddly, other Korean people).
I think what bothers me the most is how many readers have defaulted to the assumption of whiteness. I don’t think it’s absolutely, positively clear that Katniss is non-white, but I also don’t think it’s absolutely, positively clear that she’s white, either. So why is it that we have so many people saying that Katniss could be white, because white people can have olive skin too? Yes, it’s certainly true, but it’s just as possible for Katniss to be non-white. Non-white people can *also* have olive skin, after all. So why does white win out over non-white in this scenario? This disturbs me because I feel like in the absence of anything explicit, people think, “Oh, this character must be white,” and are surprised to be told anything else.
I feel like some characters need to have a big blinking sign over their head saying “POC” before readers will accept the fact that, no, they aren’t white. Look at how some authors feel the need to describe their non-white characters – “the black girl”, “an Asian boy.” You rarely see it the other way around; authors don’t typically say, “the white boy”, at least with nowhere near the same degree of frequency. Whiteness is simply assumed as the default position. I do not like this.
And I just want to add that I am guilty of this as anyone else. Malinda, when you said elsewhere that you had always imagined your two protagonists in Ash as having Asian features, I was genuinely shocked. And then I was upset with myself and started thinking, WHY had I assumed that these characters looked white in the first place? I’m Asian myself, but I think I’ve internalized the media message that says whiteness is the default. It’s sad.
But then a couple of people on Twitter reminded me that Katniss’s sister, Prim, is fair-haired and blue-eyed, which pretty much sealed the deal for me. I think Katniss is white.
This was not my interpretation of Katniss’ race — though at this point the author has spoken, and that pretty much settles things for me. But the sense I’d gotten was that the world of the Hunger Games takes place far enough in the future that today’s races have transformed into something we don’t have names for — as race does, because race is a social construct, not an absolute. It can change with time and circumstance. Which is something that good science fiction should acknowledge, and which I thought Collins’ book did acknowledge, until her recent statement endorsing Lawrence. After all, the people of the Appalachians now are racially diverse — I don’t know why people are talking as if they’re all white, but they’re not; the population there includes Acadians and Scots-Irish, the mixed-race descendants of slaves and Indians, and Melungeons — so I figured Collins had simply done her research, or lived there. It made perfect sense to me that the people there in Katniss’ time would look the way that Katniss is described, because if you take all the above groups and trap them together for a few generations, the Seam look is what you’d probably get. And likewise, it didn’t bother me that Katniss’ sister was blonde and blue-eyed, because hey, I’m black and I’ve got blonde blue-eyed people in my family (who consider themselves black); why wouldn’t others?
But frankly, there’s a lot more going on here than how Collins chose to depict the construct of race, or whether Katniss is white or not. IMO, to focus on that aspect of the controversy is a red herring. The real issue here is the way Hollywood depicts the world, now or in the future, as basically all white, all the time. I fully expect them to forego depicting one of Collins’ most interesting explorations of race in Panem: the fact that the people of Central play games with race, dyeing themselves all sorts of inhuman colors because they have the privilege of ignoring it. I’m pretty sure at this point that the people of Central will just be plain-vanilla white now. That’s because Lawrence’s casting reveals some simplistic, problematic thinking on race on the part of the producers, and so I don’t expect anything more than simplistic, problematic racial depictions in the final product.
(I figure they’ll keep Rue and Thresh black, for example, because they die soon after they appear.)
And this is part of an ongoing problem in which roles for characters whose race supposedly doesn’t matter, or is “ambiguous”, are repeatedly reserved for white actors and actresses only — which proves that it does indeed matter, because brown skin is apparently neither acceptable nor universal in the casters’ eyes. People are upset not just because of this one example, but because this is one of countless examples, and because those examples have set up a pattern that effectively excludes actors of color from consideration for most roles (especially lead roles). After all, if the casting calls specify white actors for the white characters, and the racially ambiguous/doesn’t matter characters, and the characters of color… what’s left for the actual people of color, but bit parts and Central Casting caricatures? And movies full of people who don’t look like the world they live in.
There’s a lot more to this, but I don’t wanna break out the big soapbox.
Suffice it to say, I’ll go with the author’s word on her character’s race, but I’m very disappointed to hear that a book I’ve praised as innovative has turned out to in fact be just more of the same old thing.
I agree there is a default. It is often white and male. So I will not deny its existence. I also won’t deny that when I read I tend to visualise the protagonist to look like me ie: white, unless it is explicitly stated otherwise (and I don’t think that’s a problem actually, because we often put ourselves in place of the main character, pretend that this is an adventure etc that we are having).
But I think it was so easy for so many readers to consider Katniss white because nothing suggests otherwise. Certainly not olive skin or dark hair, and the fact that her family is blond makes one typically think white as well, not “oh maybe they are mixed race and it is the blond genes that are coming through”. Besides how many times have you read the story of the plain brunette with the hot blond sibling? It’s a familiar trope.
To me this simply isn’t one of those cases you are talking about, though those cases do absolutely exist and I, like you, get quite frustrated with them. But I don’t think it is unreasonable for someone to think Katniss is white when there is nothing to suggest otherwise. And, like I’ve said before, I have never read the description of olive skin to mean anything other than a darker caucasian individual. Because when people want to describe mixed race, they will explicitly do so with other terms, like various shades of brown (and yes I am aware that different races can be mixed, it isn’t all about African Americans, but seeing as olive skin is the point of contention, I am taking it to mean that people think she could be a mix of white and a race that has darker skin).
This is not to say I don’t agree with the white default. It’s just I don’t agree that it is the problem in this case.
But I think it was so easy for so many readers to consider Katniss white because nothing suggests otherwise.
But that’s what I’m talking about – white is considered the starting point unless there is something that contradicts that assumption. Sure, there’s nothing that says she absolutely, positively has to be POC. But…there’s really nothing that says she absolutely has to be white either. So Katniss has olive skin. Sure, she can still be white. But she can also be mixed. Why does white win out over mixed in that scenario? Her mother and sister? Well, blond hair and blue eyes are recessive traits. I agree with the poster who says that she could just as easily be taking more after her father, who could be of mixed heritage himself. So once again, why does white win out?
Nice summary, Malinda! I also think, at some level, people are passionate about this because we’re projecting what future America (Panem) will/could look like. Current demographics suggest alot of people who are what we now call “multiracial” or “mixed” or hapa – and making space for that in our current pop culture is exciting for some of us (full disclosure: I’m a mother to one child who ‘looks’ Indian when he’s with me or his sister and entirely white/European when with his father. He could also probably pass as Latino/Italian. That being said, I LOVE going to Italy with my white/Euro/nonItalian husband and BOTH getting mistaken as Italian – me as Southern Italian he as Northern. It’s the one place I’ve been where we’re both assumed to ‘belong’ (not to say that racism doesn’t exist in Italy…). It’s exciting to think of a future where all of us in all our variety are assumed to be ‘insiders’
Side-note: I visited Sicily a few years ago, specifically to do some art research, and among many other things I saw tons of evidence that Sicily and other countries/parts of countries bordering the Mediterranean had trade with northern Africa and the Middle East for generations. So there’s a reason for that “Mediterranean look”; the whole region is generations-multiracial. Which is what I assumed the folk of District 12 looked like.
Rue may very well be Indian. She’s described as having brown skin; a lot of races have brown skin.
It’s also curious how so many more readers seem willing to accept the idea of a POC Rue than a POC Katniss. After all, all we know about Rue is that she has ‘brown’ skin. We aren’t given much more description/clarification into her racial status than we are for Katniss. Just as white people can have olive skin a la Katniss, white people can have brown skin too – I remember reading a book that described a white character as having skin ‘browned from the sun.’ So why is it that people are more accepting of the possibility that Rue could be black? I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that some of this could be because Katniss is the lead protagonist, while Rue is merely a side character. POC are allowed to be sidekicks, but the lead? Not so much.
I feel like some of it came from a place that the internets folks had so much fun getting their panties in a *legitimate* twist with whitewashing accusations against Airbender and Liar that they coudln’t wait to do it again, even though there was no legitimacy
Diana,
As one who got her “panties in a twist”, I can assure you it was not “fun” — confronting racism never is.
But I’ll skip addressing the rest of your comment because I’ve already added a very long one here that partially addresses some of your assumptions.
Because I think it’s an easier conclusion for many to draw that someone is white with a descriptor of olive skin and having a blond fair sister, than to think that they are all mixed and that it’s simply the recessive gene coming through. Like I said, it’s a common literary trope to have the plain dark haired girl who isn’t as pretty as her blond sister. Also the whole coal mining thing reminds many of Northern England and that history there, and there’s the whole setting of District 12, and the fact that when someone IS of colour in the book Collins says as much. There’s also the slightly unpleasant truth I’ve already articulated that more times than not authors tend to write main characters based on their own race.
Here’s a question: why shouldn’t it? Why should all evidence (including the author’s glowing support of the casting) that suggests she is white be denied just because some people read her as being something else? Why should I not be allowed to think she is what she is described to be? (and for the record, I never thought of her as anything other than how Collins’ described her – so it doesn’t matter to me what race she is because I didn’t think of her as any race, I didn’t think of her racial background or why she looked how she looked . . . I just thought she had olive skin and dark hair . . . that’s all. So all I wanted was an actor who matched that description, which is one of the many reasons I preferred Hailee Steinfeld. And the casting call could very well have been for mixed races so long as she looked how she was described, and I agree that it was typical Hollywood being stupid that they didn’t do that.)
Look, I’ve already acknowledged there is a default. And maybe, just maybe every other white person out there reading the book isn’t looking at it as I am, maybe they are just seeing the character as white because they are white and all they ever read are characters as being default white. But come on, in this case, can you blame them? When there IS the option of her being white, when it isn’t like the whole LIAR cover fiasco and the character is clearly black yet made white on the cover, why wouldn’t someone white read Katniss as white? And what’s wrong with them doing that anyway?
I get the larger debate, I do. Trust me. I might not be a visible minority but I have empathy. I am also a woman and I am sick to tears of “male” being a default as well. But as far as this in particular is concerned, I simply don’t see it as representative of the large issue.
agreed incognito! I recently babbled about the ‘BFF trope’ on TV shows – POC/queer/’other’ characters allowed to be supporting cast but not the lead! http://storiesaregoodmedicine.blogspot.com/2010/12/white-vamps-black-witches-race-politics.html
Your comment got trapped in moderation because of the links. Thanks for your comment! And in a fangirl moment: I love your blog! I’m so psyched you stopped by!
You bring up a really interesting point about the people in the Capital — I had almost forgotten about that, but you’r right, they absolutely played with race. It was one of the more fascinating aspects of the book.
I’m not going to go into the Hollywood stuff, because I do think that’s a separate debate, but I don’t think that the casting really impacts the quality or complexity of the books themselves. And you know, Collins hasn’t actually said that Katniss is white. She has said she approves of casting Jennifer Lawrence, and as another commenter here pointed out, we can’t know if she’s telling the truth.
I’d click on your link, but judging from the URL, I assume you’re talking about The Vampire Diaries.
I’m currently way behind on season 2, so I can’t look lest there be spoilers! But while we’re on the subject…I like the show, but TVD certainly has more than its fair share of issues with race!
agreed. nice soapbox.!
hah. yes indeed. there might indeed be spoilers – but not too many since I talk more the tropes than the plot! (but still, don’t want to ruin it for you!)
Thank you! You expressed pretty much what I’ve been thinking about this entire debate. Yes, Jennifer is older than Katniss, but Hollywood always casts up (plus there are plenty of actors/actresses older than “teenage” that still look somewhat “teenage”-y). And secondly, she’s a great actress (as far as I’ve heard, I haven’t seen Winter’s Bone either), so I think she’ll do the role justice.
As for Katniss’ race, I was always under the impression that she, and everybody else from the Seam, was Mediterranean-esque.
This is actually a reply to Adrienne above me — I couldn’t reply directly for some reason.
Adrienne, no one is saying you can’t think of Katniss as white. Her race is ambiguous, as I think is clear from all the discussion here.
But, well, I’m white, and read the book without ever having heard a word about Katniss’s race or appearance. And I thought she was mixed. Clearly, tons of other people did as well, or there wouldn’t be this kind of outrage.
I don’t think anyone is saying that YOU can’t think of her as white, and only very few people (and no one in this discussion, I think) say that anyone who considers Katniss white is just plain wrong… they’re just saying that it’s not black-on-white, 100% clear that it’s one or the other, and so a lot of people who read Katniss as being PoC — especially PoC readers who saw a bit of themselves in her — are disappointed that Hollywood did the same ol’, same ol’ and cast a white actress, especially since they never even considered actresses of color.
And what’s wrong with them doing that anyway?
It’s wrong because it only serves to perpetuate the very racist society that we live in, which sets up whiteness as the status quo.
Look. I’m not saying that it’s not inexcusable, or that people who do this are completely awful racist monsters who might as well don white cloaks and join the Ku Klux Klan. In response to my own comment, I said that I myself am often guilty of viewing characters as white in the absence of anything directly contradictory. But that doesn’t mean it’s right. Although, just to clarify, I am not necessarily talking about people who thought, “Hey, Katniss could be white,” but are open to the idea of her being other races. You’re right, people often view themselves as the character – if you’re trying to picture Katniss in your head, you gotta see her as something. However, there have been plenty of readers who insist that Katniss must be white because Collins doesn’t explicitly say she isn’t. And that’s what I have an issue with.
Hmm — a good point about Collins. I’d read her approval of a white actress as saying that Katniss is white, but you’re right; she doesn’t do that. And after Ursula Le Guin’s epic freakout post-Earthsea’s whitewashing a few years back, I suspect a lot of Hollywood contracts now require the author to say only complimentary things about the film versions of their work. (I’ve actually heard rumors of that becoming standard, but until/unless somebody offers me a movie option, I may never know…!)
Also, meant to say in the above comment that I fully expected them to make Rue and Thresh black because they die quickly — I agree with “Incognito”‘s post below about the fact that Rue and Thresh are no more clearly black than Katniss is clearly white.
Once again, because it could get buried underneath the rest of my text, to clarify my first sentence, I am only talking about the people who insist that she must be white, that there is no evidence for her being POC, that they viewed her as white because that was what the text supported, etc. If you personally envision her as white, but you at least acknowledge that it’s not something set in stone, then that’s something else entirely.
See this comment I can get on board with MUCH more than the question as to why readers see her as white. My issue was with the notion that we as readers aren’t allowed to see her as something that she could very well be. I was answering the question why people saw her like that which I thought was fairly reasonable to assume (especially if the reader happens to be olive skinned and white).
As far as Hollywood is concerned, and the idea that one is always white if another race isn’t specified, and how much both suck . . . I’m with you 100% on that. As I’ve already said, I think Hollywood was silly to discount other races in the casting call, but, I’m not surprised. I’m also not surprised they chose someone skinny and standard gorgeous either.
But I just wanted to defend why people would see her as white, and that them seeing her as white might not be necessarily because of the default. It might simply be because of how she was described and how they thus interpreted the description.
I’m gonna say something that might not suit people, but I wish we would stop this particular debate, especially in light of Suzanne Collin’s ringing endorsement of a very white actress for Katniss. To put this debate anywhere near what they did to Airbender fiasco or the Liar cover controversy, is just not right. And I’m a great believer in picking the right battles to fight for.
There’s no fight here. Katniss has been deemed white – by the author. Let it go. We need more authors that will clearly choose to write MCs who are of color. We need more filmmakers who are willing to risk putting more actors of color in main roles. We need more acceptance from society that people of color are just as fun to read, watch, support, care for, as white people are. If the filmmakers populate the world of Hunger Games as totally white, then we’ve got a fight on our hands. But I don’t think they’ll do that. Until something bad like that happens, I say move to positivity instead of continuing to talk about the negative. I’m absolutely stoked to see a Hunger Games movie. Instead of harping on what Katniss should or shouldn’t have been racially, let’s support the filmmakers in picking a racially diverse cast.
In my view, it’s less about Katniss never being specifically described as not white, so therefore she must be white. I’ve said in conversations about the books that in my reading, races and ethnicities in Panem aren’t the same races and ethnicities that exist in the US. I think instead of being Appalachian, Katniss is Seam or District 12.
My issue is more that based on her physical characteristics, Katniss could be portrayed by an actor who isn’t white and the casting department went out of their way to make sure that didn’t happen.
I feel like some of it came from a place that the internets folks had so much fun getting their panties in a *legitimate* twist with whitewashing accusations against Airbender and Liar that they coudln’t wait to do it again, even though there was no legitimacy.
Like the above comment says — no one was having a jolly time over the Avatar or Liar accusations. They did it because they saw a problem and spoke up. And there are problems here, starting from the casting that demanded white actresses only. This is a legimate discussion to have.
Collins goes out of her way to say Rue and a few other characters from other districts are not white and that the Districts are somewhat divided on racial lines due to their isolation, and the rest of Katniss’s family is “fair” and that everyone else in District 12 is also white!
No, she says that the miners’ families look like Katniss, eg. olive-skinned and dark-haired. If you want to read that as okay, fine, but Collins never said that. She did say that Prim takes after their mother, and Katniss takes after their father, so this could easily be a mixed family. (And, yes, blonde hair and blue eyes do occur within multiracial families. Prim’s appearance in no way excludes their father being mixed, and thus Prim and Katniss as well.)
Collins does mention that Rue and some other characters have dark skin. I don’t see how that means that Katniss — whose skin color is also explicitly mentioned — must default to white.
You can go out of your way to argue against that, but the text *does* actively support the supposition that Katniss is white, on several levels.
Seriously — why? I read the book without any idea of Katniss or her race and finished it thinking there was a good chance Katniss was mixed. Clearly, something in the text gave me that idea, and loads of others interpreted it the same way. I am really curious what about the book makes you so convinced she absolutely must be white, since plenty of mixed people have olive skin, and plenty of mixed people have blond hair and blue eyes like Prim. I can see how people would read the book and assume she’s white, but I don’t see how they can confidently say there is absolutely no possibility of her being anything BUT white.
I am white and *I* have olive skin
Yes, but I don’t see how that means that everyone else with olive skin is automatically white as well.
that Katniss’ district is Appalachia, which is very white
I don’t think this is a very convincing argument. For one, we don’t know what Appalachia’s racial make-up will look like in the future. For another, just because it’s predominantly white doesn’t exclude the possibility of PoC characters hailing from there. For yet another, there’s the Meluchians, as mentioned in several other places in this comment thread.
Speaking as a white granddaughter of a white coal miner with dark hair and olive skin, and as a daughter of a white coal miner’s daughter (which Katniss is) with dark hair and olive skin… well, the idea that saying she has dark hair is somehow coded for biracial is downright laughable.
… laughable? I’m sorry, I think that’s pretty rude — just because you don’t read it that way doesn’t mean that your reading is the ONLY correct reading of the text. Lots of savvy readers don’t agree with you. Lots of mixed people saw themselves in Katniss. Just because you saw yourself in her too and you happen to be white does not negate their experience. Seriously, read some of the links posted in this thread. People do have significant reasons for thinking there’s a possibility Katniss is mixed… and therefore thinking that it’s patently ridiculous that the casting call demanded white actresses only, when plenty of mixed actresses fit the description of Katniss as given in the book.
I wonder how much we should read into Collins’s support of Lawrence. How much say did she have in the casting call that went out? And would she even be allowed to speak up publicly if she didn’t like their casting? How much weight would her objections even hold behind the scenes?
I’m really glad she thinks Lawrence will do a good job in the role — I certainly hope so — but I don’t think it excludes the possibility that Collins is steaming inside because she wanted a mixed actress. It took a while before Justine Larbalestier spoke out about the cover, too. There’s all sorts of politics in play that just make it difficult for me to attach any sort of weight to Collins’s words as far as Katniss’s race goes.
Why should anyone support the filmmakers in picking a racially diverse cast when they’ve done the opposite thus far? A good part of this debate is about the fact that the casting call excluded any possibility of people of color trying out for the role. There is a fight here — the segregation that is explicitly and repeatedly reinforced in Hollywood. I see no reason to support another example of it.
Also cf Malinda’s note about the author not deeming Katniss white; I made that mistake, too. But all she’s done is approve of the actress. If she wanted to declare Katniss white, all she’d have to do would be to say, “Katniss is white.”
This. I don’t think anyone is arguing that dark hair/olive-toned skin can’t describe a white person. I think most of us are arguing against the notion that it can describe only white people, which is the crux of the casting process.
+1!
But they did open casting to biracial actors also as Hailey Steinfeld is biracial and was seriously in contention. I think that the author has endorsed the actress is as good as saying there is no issue here. Suzanne Collins is not at the same level as some other joe shmoe author – she’s got creative input. She could have clearly said Katniss is not white to the producers just like JK Rowling said you can only use British actors.
AGain – I really don’t see that there is a fight here.
I can see how others think of Katniss as non-white even if I feel she was meant to be.
What it makes me think of, is how JKR insisted Dean be played by a black actor, because he was black in the books.
It’s not that simple — from the problematic casting call to Hollywood’s predictability and the giant missed opportunity of having a mixed actress as a lead, plenty of people do see issues here, and I don’t see how they shouldn’t discuss those. All of this fits into a much larger, well-established pattern of white actors being preferred. They actually sent out a casting call so that unknowns could audition as well — and that casting call specified “Caucasian” as a requirement. So loads of actresses missed out on an opportunity to audition.
As several people above have mentioned, we really don’t know how much sway Suzanne Collins has in the process. She’s nowhere near JK Rowling’s level of fame, so I don’t think that’s a fair comparison. Creative input doesn’t necessarily mean she gets to veto casting choices. Until Suzanne Collins says, “I always meant for Katniss to be 100% white in the books, let’s move on” we really don’t know anything.
Suzanne Collins is not some lowly, unknown author, but she’s no JK Rowling either. The Hunger Games is popular, but it is not the same sort of worldwide phenomenon as Harry Potter (or Twilight, for that matter). So I wonder just how much creative control she does have over the movie. I believe you have to be at pretty much a Rowling level of fame before you can insist on having final veto power. IIRC, Anne Rice was initially pissed when Tom Cruise was cast in Interview with the Vampire, and she was a popular author back then as well.
Steinfeld is an Oscar nominee; she obviously gets special consideration. The fact remains that the casting call was not open; it specified Caucasian actresses only. For actresses who aren’t Oscar nominees, and who don’t have high-powered agents or managers “in the know” to tell them otherwise, a whole bunch of the browner-skinned ones probably read that casting call and sighed to themselves, and stayed home.
As for Collins’ power — she’s no jane schmoe, but the Hunger Games is not on Harry Potter’s level. I doubt she had as much creative control as Rowling.
They did not open the casting to other actresses–they specifically sent out casting breakdowns that read “should be Caucasian, between ages 15 and 20, who could portray someone underfed but strong, and ‘naturally pretty underneath her tomboyishness”. (Their words via Breakdown Services, my source is Racebending.
In addition, in Hollywood, Steinfeld (who was my first choice as well) is considered Caucasian, despite being quarter-Filipino, the way Alexa Chung (English model and personality) is considered “white”, despite being a quarter Chinese. (I didn’t even know she was part Asian.)
Actually, I would say most people have NOT heard of the Melungeon unless they grew up in the region and/or studied it extensively.
I think part of the problem is that Rue and Thresh are the only characters who are pretty much specified as not white. So do they cast the other kids in the arena the same way they cast Katniss? That means that in the arena of 24 kids that should have appearances geographically representative of the entire country, 22 are white, 2 are black, and nobody is anything else.
And what about, say, Effie? The only thing described about her is her hair color, which is mutable and obviously unnatural. She’s not on the list of characters of color, so does she have to be white, too? President Snow has white hair and unnaturally large lips. Is he white because Collins doesn’t make a point of describing the color of his skin?
True, BUT, to play devil’s advocate, you have to consider that the rights to THG sold after the series became a huge success, and it’s very likely that Suzanne Collins got to pick and choose which production company she wanted to work with. I don’t think it’s outside the realm of possibility that she went with the one that would give her the most imput, especially when she got to write the first draft of the script. There are many ways to convey displeasure in casting, and one of the reasons why I’m prone to thinking that she is thrilled with the casting results is how much she… gushes. I would think that if she had been unhappy, she wouldn’t have said anything or her statement would have read differently.
To be fair, Rue is described as having “dark brown” skin, and while it could easily refer to tanning from hours every day spent out in the fields, I think because it’s hooked together with her eyes, the implication is that it’s a trait rather than her current condition, for lack of a better phrase to describe it. And that paired with District 11′s resemblance to a large-scale plantation. I think anyone who didn’t think it before accepts it now that Ross said in his interview that Collins told him Rue and Thresh are African-American.
But how can you know Steinfeld was “really in contention” or if they just let her read to appease the fans? How can you know they were really considering her when doesn’t even meet the requirements in the casting call?
*when she doesn’t meet the requirements
I also wanted to add one thing about age — I realize that Hollywood almost always ages YA characters, and it usually doesn’t matter to me if a protag looks more twentysomething elegant than teenage awkward. But to me part of the intrinsic horror of the Games is that the participants are children. And I know it’s my opinion, but it feels to me that by casting twentysomethings, they’re just trying to put people in their comfort zone, the first step to sexing it up and dumbing it down.
That’s funny (funny-weird, not funny-haha). I’m from Texas, and District 11 looks like one big Old South plantation to me.
OK, let’s not get too heated. I don’t think Diana’s saying everybody must agree with her. Let’s not put words in anybody’s mouths here. I’d like to err on the side of giving everybody the benefit of the doubt.
To the point about keeping Rue and Thresh black, I believe Ross specified in his interview that Collins told him they were African-American, and pretty much implied that was license to make the rest of the continent white. I’ve made my point about how the kids in the arena should be representative of the country enough, so I’ll stand down there.
I never thought Asian for Cinna, honestly there is this 2 second character in a movie called Repo that I always thought Cinna would look like (It’s the interviewer when they are in the strange fair place for anyone who has seen it).
I did see Katniss as white, perhaps because I associate that region with poor white people. I agree the casting should not have been limited to white actresses, but I don’t find this as offensive as the terrible casting of the “Airbender” movie.
She might not have meant anyone to be a certain race. If I mean for someone to be a certain race, or gay, in my books I say it because I think it’s important. Even if you don’t race-name everyone (because they aren’t major characters) by specifically saying a few of the people are different races, you automatically give the impression that the wider group of people are multiracial.
I hear your frustration, Ello. I think sometimes things get blown out of proportion in online debate. I certainly hope that Suzanne Collins meant what she said about approving of the casting. It’s just interesting to me that so many people are fighting for the possibility that Katniss might not be white. I mean, that seems kind of unprecedented to me! It’s both frustrating and heartening, in a way.
I completely agree that there is a symptomatic problem with Hollywood’s bias for Caucasian actors. But sometimes the role calls for a Caucasian actor and we need to be accepting of that also! Hollywood sent out a call for Caucasian actors and then chose a Caucasian actor. The author endorses said Caucasian actor. I still think this is not an issue we should be up at arms over. When we rail over issues that are relatively minor, we lose the power of our voice. We just become noise – and not the good kind. That’s why I think it’s important to pick our battles.
People say “can’t read too much into Collin’s endorsement of Lawrence.” How about, let’s take it at face value. She glowingly endorsed Lawrence. She approves of her. Had she not, she wouldn’t have said a word. That’s how authors can voice disapproval and still be within their contracts with the filmmakers. That’s what the creators of Airbender did. They never said one single word about the casting of a white boy in an Asian role. They couldn’t, that would have breached their contract. But neither did they say ONE word in support. The very fact that Collins is publicly and proudly endorsing Lawrence indicates that she has NO issue with the casting call.
I don’t ever want to see whitewashing occur. It breaks my heart. But our voice has more power when we raise it against true wrongs. I don’t believe that is the case here.
But if you believe there’s a symptomatic problem with Hollywood’s preference for Caucasian actors, how can you put any credence into Hollywood’s call for only Caucasian actors and subsequent choice of a Caucasian actor? I mean, if you know that the studio is probably going to call for a white actress whether the role calls for one or not, doesn’t it prove everybody’s point that they did? I mean, I don’t see how that works to support your argument when it works to support the opposing argument as well.
It’s not unprecedented, Malinda. Actors, artists, and fans of color (and a few white actors and artists, like Le Guin) have been fighting to see all levels of roles in Hollywood open to PoC — not just the handful of stereotypical/bit parts that have been traditionally reserved for PoC — for decades. What’s unprecedented is seeing white fans start to fight for it — and sadly, that’s the only reason recent efforts have gotten the kind of attention they have.
Actually, that’s my point. They did call for Caucasian actors only for this role. But that’s ok because clearly the role was meant to be for a Caucasian – see my point about Collins glowing approval versus Airbender’s creators absolute silence on casting. Let’s get up in arms over true issues of whitewashing – which this has never been clearly the case here. And now is definitely a dead issue on.
My point is that we make this argument when it is the right issue for it – not throw the race card every single time. It eventually hurts our credibility. That’s why I keep saying, we must pick our battles. Let’s not become noise. Let’s not become the boy who cried wolf.
That’s all.
Maybe not, but I do think she is being unfairly condescending and trivializing our concerns by referring to us as getting our panties in a twist (a very dismissive phrase), and saying that we must enjoy getting angry. Yeah, I just love the smell of racefail in the morning!
Er, yes, that’s what I meant.
That I’m kind of stunned that white fans are fighting for it. That’s the part that I find heartening. Obviously poc and lgbt folks have been fighting for their own representation for a long time.
But I’m saying that it’s ineffective as support because that they called for only Caucasians for the role is my point, too, which is quite different from yours. And I disagree with your use of the word “clearly”.
Ello,
The problem with the whole “save your anger for a true wrong, pick your battles, wait for a more convenient season” argument is that it’s very old, and it’s never been very effective. What has been effective is calling out problems whenever they’re spotted, and either having a conversation about them, or taking positive action to change them. Especially when those “minor issues” are part of a larger pattern of systematic segregation.
Because that is what we’re talking about, here. Even if Collins is OK with Katniss’ actress being white, the fact remains that this is yet another case in which a role that could have been available to everyone was instead restricted to white people. And this has happened again, and again, and again, and again. There’s more at stake here than just representation. Think about how this kind of systematic exclusion from opportunities affects the ability of people of color in the entertainment business to earn as much as their white counterparts. Think about how that impacts their power, their ability to get projects that realistically feature all races greenlighted. Think about how this same pattern of discrimination gets applied to women, to LGBTQ people, to all sorts of “minorities”. And think about how often you’ve heard this pattern’s wrongs used to justify more wrongs of a similar nature. “Women don’t watch action films so we won’t put women in important roles because women don’t watch action films.” “But it’s true that gay men are effeminate, that’s why we’ll only make effeminate roles available to gay men!” And in this case, “Sure, the character could be any race but we’ll restrict it to white actors because the character could be any race.” This is how bigotry perpetuates itself — not so much through blatant hatred as through the sheer unwillingness to actually change.
So to put it bluntly, by dismissing other people’s concerns with this casting because you don’t see anything wrong with it, you’re helping to maintain the same status quo that you’ve already agreed is a problem.
If you don’t want to see the system change, fine. But please stop insisting that the people who do want change, and are willing to protest (or write, or argue on a blog, or Tweet, or whatever, as long as it’s a positive action) to make it happen, should wait for a better time.
Ok, I’m getting confused here, and I think objecting to the use of the word “clearly” proves that nothing here is clear. Ello has made her point. Some people have disagreed with her. Let’s move on.
Oh, gotcha; sorry for misunderstanding.
To me, the issue was never whether or not Katniss is white. That far in the future, the concept of “whiteness” will either be gone or changed. I was simply nursing the hope that an actress of color would be able to snag the role, because there’s no solid reason to believe Katniss is Caucasian, and thus no reason to limit the casting call.
I don’t think it’s as egregious as Airbender, and I don’t plan to boycott the movie. I’m sure Jennifer Lawrence will do a great job, though she’s certainly not the only person who could have handled the role. I’m just hurt on behalf of the other talented young actresses who weren’t considered because of pointless, racist reasons.
I think this has been one of the most reasonable debates I’ve seen about this issue. I wanted to thank you for bringing up several points – first, the one about city-people linking poverty with minority groups, and how that would impact their view on the book. The same with someone saying they consider agriculture = hispanic migrant workers. I associate agriculture with white folk with country accents, but I grew up in the Bible belt.
The Melungeon slant is certainly interesting, but even Wikipedia states “most modern-day descendants of Appalachian families traditionally regarded as Melungeon are generally European American in appearance” – so I wouldn’t expect them to start to appear less European American in the distant future.
I apologize for getting my hackles up. Given her comments about people getting their panties in a twist, having fun with these kinds of arguments, there being no legitimacy to this discussion, that people going out of their way to argue for even the possibility of Katniss being mixed, and that it’s laughable that someone might read something other into the text than what she did… It seemed very dismissive, when people on both sides have been making well-reasoned, intelligent contributions to back up their points.
So even if she’s not saying everyone must agree with her, I did read the comment as putting down everyone who doesn’t, which is a sentiment that’d been refreshingly absent from most of the conversation up until then.
Anyway, it’s your blog and you set the tone — I just wanted to explain my reaction. I apologize if I was out of line anywhere, or if I read anything into Diana’s comment that wasn’t there.
This is close to my feelings on the matter, as well. I actually hold decent hopes for the movie, and look forward to seeing it. It did temper my optimism, though; I just wish they’d been less close-minded about all of this. I now worry the maybe-sorta whitewashing will extend to the other districts — District 11 will be black, okay, but what about all the others? I fear we’re going to see a very, very white movie with just Rue and Thresh thrown in as an afterthought, and we all know the size of their roles. That doesn’t seem like a vision of a future America, to me.
Hopefully this discussion will at least inspire them to cast some actors of color for the kids from the other districts.
Oh, that’s a good point that hadn’t occurred to me yet.
Why wouldn’t you say that your biracial character is half black? For the record when I read dark skin, I see someone who is at least partly black in my head.
It’s like when some people were surprised to see Nudge from maximum ride portrayed as black in the graphic novel. Hello people, read what the author is saying!
“Look at how some authors feel the need to describe their non-white characters – “the black girl”, “an Asian boy.” You rarely see it the other way around; authors don’t typically say, “the white boy”, at least with nowhere near the same degree of frequency.”
I think if anything this whole casting thing proves just why an author WOULD say any of those things. If you say your character is Asian, or black, or green with purple stars all over, then it is out there and if it isn’t portrayed that way then you have a concrete argument. I think it’s good for people to say that because then it does become a norm and people won’t be so surprised to find out a character was intended to be a different race.
As a super pale, super blond white person, I had this discussion with a black friend when I was writing one of my main character as black, asking her how do you mention it? How often does it have to be reiterated? What is offensive? (She for one hates comparison of skin color to something like, say, chocolate) I think white authors steer away from race because they don’t want to offend anyone and saying something vague like “The guy was cute, with Asian features” lends diversity to the work without risking too much offense.
I think it’s good for people to say that because then it does become a norm
Right, but do you also advocate for writers mentioning that a character is white as well? I guess I’m not sure what you’re arguing – hey, it’s only 10:46 here and I don’t fully wake up until noon
. Do you only want authors to say so when a character ISN’T white, or do you want it to be more of an equal-opportunity descriptionfest? If it’s the latter, I don’t have a problem with that, but if it’s the former – that’s part of the problem I’m talking about.
Well it was even earlier when I wrote that so who knows…lol
I guess I was trying to say yes it sucks that people assume characters are white, but if I read a book where most of the characters are another race I am going to assume everyone is that race too unless the author tells me different. In “The other Wes Moore” the main characters are black and when someone isn’t black the author clearly states that.
Right or wrong people are going to see a character how they see them based on descriptions given. I guess I am saying in a world where white is assumed(wrong as that may be) an author has to say what a character is and after enough time of authors making a point to say it, then if a katniss-like issue arises again and the author says “no she is mixed race I didn’t think I needed to say that” people will accept it more readily.
I am not arguing against your problem at all, just trying to explain why authors do feel the need to race-name their characters because without doing it people see white. As I said in a different post I will race-name some characters in my books because I feel like specifically saying these people are this, this, and this race it builds a world where you can see many races exist and if ever made into a movie, casting should be done from the full spectrum.
Better, or no?
This is a response to your later comment – the reply button seems to keep disappearing if you get too far into a thread. Anyway, in that case, I see what you’re saying – if most of the characters are A, then it makes sense to point out when a character is B. However, I am talking of stories where… well, let me just give an example without naming names. There was one story that had a scene in an NYC nightclub. The author would describe certain people (pretty much extras in the background), and I noticed that she kept pointing out when someone was Asian or Black, but never white, e.g. “Main Character bumped into an Asian girl.” That sort of thing. It bothered me. NYC is a very diverse city, no matter what Friends would have us believe. So why make sure to point out when a character was non-white, but not the reverse?
I can see that sort of thing being annoying, personally if I was writing a scene like that I wouldn’t feel the need to call to attention anyone’s race, because as you say, NYC is divers, it shouldn’t need to be made clear. I guess I was thinking if you are working in alternate or future realities then you should give an idea of what the racial structure looks like there. One could argue that people should know that a future world will be racially mixed based on our mixed world now, but it is good to remind people.
Pointing it out in a complete fantasy world is more important I think because most of those worlds read as totally white bread because few people bother to specify anything different.
Here’s a nice summary article from Racebending.com that hits on many of the points we’ve discussed here – thought some folks on this discussion might be interested. Thanks for the thoughtful comments, all.
http://www.racebending.com/v4/featured/jennifer-lawrence-cast-as-katniss-in-the-hunger-games/