Comments on: New Notes & Queeries: Bring on the butches

By: Malinda Lo

Malinda Lo — Fri, 20 Mar 2009 13:29:54 +0000

Thanks for your clarification, samsonian, and the compliment at the end. I totally agree that masculinity is not something to be praised without thought. But I do ask you to consider what I was saying in the column — that butchness is (I believe) a different way of expressing femininity. We don’t all have to express our femininity in one particular way. And I also believe that if it’s important to distinguish between masculinity expressed by a woman, and masculinity that is macho and misogynistic.

That’s not to say that there aren’t butch women or lesbians who act the way you’ve experienced. But I’ve seen enough discrimination against butches in this community — lesbians who clearly identify as women, who love women, who support women, and who merely express their gender less femininely than the mainstream. I support these butches. That’s who I’m talking about.

By: samsonian

samsonian — Fri, 20 Mar 2009 05:37:04 +0000

Melinda, I was “speaking” in general terms. I’ve been out for over 20 years. When I first immersed myself in the lesbian community, I felt I had somehow entered the land of the lost boys–”boys” who viewed femininity with disdain–especially their own (as similarly expressed by homophobic hetero males regarding any characteristic within themselves that may be perceived as soft or feminine). I heard all the butch rationale about “masculine privilege and power,” and I’ve heard many butch lesbians express sexist, misogynistic notions–which they were somehow able to justify due to having vaginas between their legs. Most of those women who once defined “butch identity” in our communities (as it turns out) were not lesbians at all, as they’ve since transitioned (but that leads us onto a whole new tangent).

As for myself, I searched for women who exemplified how to feel good about being both a lesbian and an adult woman, and discovered that such individuals were rare. When I came out, “visibility” had less to do with an overt declaration than heuristic visual and behavioral cues. Therefore, lesbian presentation was largely “standardized” (thus, the “lesbian uniform,” which was purposefully void of feminine beauty or anything that might pander aesthetically to hetero male desires). One had to be reactionary to avoid being “male-defined.” But, is reactionary how we really want to be when defining who we are? That’s quite limiting, and still a means of relinquishing power.

I think we’ve finally reached a point in society when lesbians can feel free to own and express our femininity in various forms without having to prove or justify ourselves to one another.

So, I did read your article thoroughly, and I find you to be an exceptionally bright and insightful writer–not to mention very attractive ;D–however, I tread very cautiously when it comes to valorizing butch or masculine identity.

By: cindy

cindy — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:11:11 +0000

okay. i loved this column and post. thanks for sharing. if i played on the other team, i’d totally be hot for butch. just sayin’.

By: Malinda

Malinda — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 03:20:38 +0000

samsonian — I have not, in my article, expressed any disdain for the feminine. I am, in fact, a femme. Nor did I state that masculinity is more meaningful, and I do not believe it is so. I hope you’ll read the article more closely.

By: samsonian

samsonian — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 01:56:46 +0000

I respect your pov, but I don’t agree. I find it irritating when I hear lesbians express disdain for the feminine–as though femininity equates to the diminishment of woman, and should be overcome as something less powerful, less meaningful and less substantial than the masculine, which is so valued as superior in our society. It’s so often been claimed that women don’t own or define their own femininity–that it’s something imposed upon us by the male sex, or that it’s mere artifice designed for the pleasure of men. Until we learn to overcome this thinking, we’ll continue to operate within a value system of masculine hegemony

By: E.V.

E.V. — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 05:24:45 +0000

Hey… Actually liked the column. I love when body, gender, and sexual preference collide, cut through, mix, get together, untangle…
And I get the whole part about “choice”. I once read that homosexuality is not a choice, it is something you feel. But assuming it, being gay (in the whole Judith Butler resubjectivization way), is a choice. I find Octavio Paz’s treatment of love similar: he defines love as the intersection, the meeting of two opposites: fatality and freedom. Love gets to you, you feel it, you’re “hit” by it: Cupid’s arrow is precisely the metaphor for the feeling. But yet, you choose to pursue that love. You embrace it. You live it. It’s weird. Because in the end, what this means is that we can choose to be miserable (i.e., run away from love, i.e., run away from being gay, butch, transgendered, whatever). But, the operative word is miserable: freedom is funny. In my sarcastic days I define it as the right to be stupid. Others, as the right to be miserable. Others, just as the right to be, or feel, whatever it is.
The other funny thing is that being butch, or gay (or both) has to be a choice. Sometimes I question what it is that we (or at least I) fight for. And it’s for something quite simple: to stop having to make choices. If the personal is political (or the private is public), it’s because they won’t let it be (the statu quo, whatever that is). The personal won’t be political, when it’s no longer relevant. The private shall be private, when it is just a matter of privacy. I find the coverage of LGTB treatment in the media fascinating and noble: the construction of identity(ies) is key to the transformation. Hmm… Right, I’m rambling now…
Anyway, loved the article too.

By: Jennifer

Jennifer — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 03:57:22 +0000

I thought the article was terrific. Meant to say so. And I totally understood/agreed with your point about some amount of expressing butchness being a choice. Coming from one who has been labeled as being butch many times when I didn’t agree with the label… I suspect that label tho, had to do with some inner-butchness being expressed against my conscious will.

By: Natazzz

Natazzz — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 23:34:46 +0000

Your column was a pleasure to read, like always.

Word choice aside, whenever an article receives that many comments (and it’s not about the L word), you are doing something right.

By: Jessica M.

Jessica M. — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 19:25:18 +0000

As a young butch woman (who looks like a “boy” and takes a lot of hell for it living in the deep south) I did not take offense at your word choice. I inferred from your statement that living openly as a butch women (particularly to a highly visible degree) is difficult in a society with very narrow (and binary) conceptions of gender/femininity and you were commending women who live outside that rigid structure. I hope other butch women infer that as well because the column was really enjoyable to read and quite insightful (in my humble opinion ) regarding butch identity.